Note from Guru Kurt: I agreed with this person's website, but I have a different and more personal reason for asserting the identity of Jesus and Krishna. Who may guess what that reason is? I surely will not be telling anyone! Jesus came for the sinners, and Krishna came for the saints, but it was the same divine personality wearing different disguises. People should know that there is only one God, and He rules over all the earth, not just this or that subpopulation. A lot of things were said to primitive man in order to inculcate an attitude of reverence and awe which do not apply anymore to today's world, after the dawn of the "age of reason." I begin to doubt this, however, and think that I should go back to the old days and tell everyone that "heaven" awaits them, even as I am astounded that my closest students are not intelligent enough to press for more information about it, but can hardly wait to leave me and gather followers of their own! Such is the way of the world. Someone once told me that I should bring peace to the whole world, but this I cannot do. I have brought peace into my own heart, and the world must take care of itself, with the Father's graceful assistance. I can only tell you what life is like for me; all my teachings are variations on this single theme, and my whole personal religion is summed up on a coin that I purchased from a bookstore with the simple inscription, "Father, I love you!"
You have arrived at a true conclusion through a process of reasoning from
scripture, that Jesus and Krishna were one and the same person born twice on
earth. This is not all. Buddha, Lao-Tse, Moses, Rama, Mohammed, and in the
modern era Chaitanya and Ramakrishna, were all the same person, in different
bodies. These men were personifications of earth’s Creator, who has visited
earth repeatedly to point the way to happiness to different groups of people,
having different tendencies and proclivities. This person is divine, and there
is nothing human about him except his body. His thoughts all come from a divine
spring, for in truth the body that he wears is just a vehicle for the thought of
a mighty spiritual being, a true God. This is why what he utters while on earth
becomes scripture, for it resonates deep within the core of the human being, as
coming from their own divine Self, the Self within. This being is not through
visiting earth at all. Indeed, it would seem that the scientific era, which has
everyone believing they have no souls and are wholly biochemical creatures,
would demand his coming again soon to force a reconciliation between science and
religion, for science is merely uncovering the details about God’s work,
nothing more.
I wish to examine your conclusion, and see for myself whether your reasoning is valid. I have come to the same conclusion by different means, but I am very intrigued by your courageous website. You voice an opinion that is very rare on earth. I choose to discuss your page about the difference between Jesus and Krishna, http://omjesus.com/omjesus-difference-between-jesus-and-krishna.htm. If you are interested, I could discuss your other pages as well. I hope you do not mind if I intersperse my comments with your text directly. I will head my comments with Guru Kurt and yours with your website address, omjesus.com.
Omjesus.com:
What is the
difference between Jesus and Krishna?
Answer: Essentially there is no difference in the message of Krishna and the
message of Jesus. Like father, like son.
If you find a conflict, then that is because a whole superficial theological
structure was superimposed on the original teachings of Jesus. So you have to
distinguish between the Christ of creed and dogma and the Jesus of history.
Guru Kurt:
This is very perceptive. There is indeed a good deal of confusion in
Christianity, notably that which arises in the works of the apostles, who did
not understand Jesus’ purpose fully – because they were not meant to
understand. Jesus and Krishna were indeed the same divine person, but they gave
different messages to different peoples to suit the divine purpose. Jesus knew
everything that Krishna knew, and vice-versa. God is highly intelligent, and
withheld some things from the Jews, for they were too primitive and violent in
their thinking. They were not ready for the full message of the Bhagavad Gita.
Jesus would have been killed in two years, not three, if he had mentioned
reincarnation!
Omjesus.com:
Jesus was preaching perfectly, and his universal message is nondifferent from
the teachings of Krishna: Man has to change his heart, give up sense
gratification and turn to God with complete determination--"Thou shalt love
The Lord Thy God with all Thy heart, with all Thy soul, and with all Thy
might."
Guru Kurt:
Again, very good. Jesus did indeed give the secret to the path of love
to the Jews, despite the hardness of their hearts that would not hear the full
truth about rebirth and enlightenment. Yes, Jesus refused to speak to the Jews
of enlightenment! This is the reason behind the materialistic nature of the
West. Jesus gave them free eternal life for the simple act of believing in Him!
It is no wonder they are so content with material goods, and are deeply
suspicious of all other religions. It is no wonder they are so dogmatic and
closed-minded about any new teaching. The American pie is a gift from God to the
Jews and Christians, and are they ever eating it!
Omjesus.com:
This is the very essence of Jesus' teachings, and such bhakti, or pure
devotion to the Supreme Being, was at the heart of his life.
Guru Kurt:
Beautiful. You have hit the nail square on the head.
Omjesus.com:
It is at the heart of any genuine spirituality.
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te pratijane priyo 'si me
"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage
unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you
are My very dear friend" (Bhagavad-gita 18.65).
Guru Kurt:
Yes. This verse also harmonizes with Jesus’ teaching that
"Whosoever believeth in me shall have eternal life." He merely
neglected to tell his listeners that eternal life was already theirs through the
vehicle of rebirth, the transmigration of their souls. Now, he did have a
purpose for this subterfuge. He came on a mission of pure mercy and in an
attitude of bending down to help the lowest, the lowliest, and the lost. He
wanted to save people from hell, which is a real phenomenon. Above all else,
people should stay out of hell, and simply believing in Him was enough to
accomplish this. This is the message of Jesus. As you point out, such souls that
love and adore Jesus are moving ahead on the path of bhakti as described in the
Gita without realizing it! They simply are not motivated by the goal of moksha
or liberation, but by a desire to attain "heaven" or stay out of hell.
Omjesus.com:
tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam
dadami buddhi-yogam tam yena mam upayanti te
"To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the
understanding by which they can come to Me" (Bhagavad-gita 10.10).
Guru Kurt:
You realize that the Bhagavad Gita is a much richer and warmer scripture
than the New Testament. To the heart of a true devotee, the Bible is dry and
bitter stuff indeed! The Gita, the Bhagavatam and other Hindu scriptures flow
with milk and honey in their descriptions of the way of love. This is one reason
that Westerners have no taste for the religions of the East. They do not
naturally possess the heart of a true devotee, who grows excited just hearing
about the wonderful ways and grace of the perfect, loving and compassionate
Lord.
Omjesus.com:
tesam evanukampartham aham ajnana-jam tamah
nasayamy atma-bhava-stho jnana-dipena bhasvata
"To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with
the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance" (Bhagavad-gita
10.11).
Guru Kurt:
Along with withholding the truth about enlightenment from the
Israelites, Jesus withheld the truth about the internal manifestation that
Brahman maintains deep in the hearts of every living creature. God exists both
within, as the deepest Self, and without, as the Creator of the universe. Jesus
spoke only of the external manifestation, and it is from this external
manifestation that the threat of hell arises. If you would know the truth, hell
is evolution running in reverse. God reserves the right to throw unrepentant
sinners back into animal bodies, a process that causes them great agony and
torment, but which is very effective at reforming them. By repenting and
following Jesus, even a murderer can avoid this fate. Jesus’ central message
was one of forgiveness and mercy, and this aspect of God’s nature was deemed
important enough to spend a whole life in bringing the message to man.
Omjesus.com:
The great Spiritual master Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur teaches:
manasa deho geho jo kichu mor arpilun tuwa pade nanda-kisor
"My mind, my body, my home, whatever I have in my possession, I offer
unto You, my Lord."
Guru Kurt:
This is indeed a very good attitude. These things already belong to God.
By thinking of them as belonging to Him instead of oneself, one quickly becomes
free from all selfish attachment, the cause of misery.
Omjesus.com:
Srila Rupa Gosvami, the direct disciple of Sri Krishna Caitanya, says:
sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate
"When all one's senses are engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord,
the master of all the senses, and the soul renders pure service unto the
Supreme, he is freed from all material designations, and one's senses are
purified" (Narada-pancaratra qtd. in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.12).
Guru Kurt:
Chaitanya was another incarnation of the Lord, the same person who
appeared as Krishna, Jesus, and most recently Ramakrishna. This direct disciple
was fortunate indeed to have shared in the bliss of learning from his lotus
feet. He has stated the process of liberation correctly, emphasizing the path of
love as the surest way to free the senses from attachment. Attempting to free
them directly, by one’s own efforts, is the path of knowledge as described in
the Gita, a path that is difficult and steep. One should focus all one’s
attention on the Lord, and rely on his mighty internal power to train the senses
and free one from their ever-present siren call.
Omjesus.com:
Such service to the Lord encompasses all of one's life, and it simply does
not matter whether such truth is spoken by Jesus or by Sri Krishna. God the
father and his son are one in spirit and one in love.
Guru Kurt:
This is good. What I will tell you now you perhaps did not know. The
Father is Brahman indeed, and therefore Jesus and the Father, Krishna and
Brahman, are related in exactly the same way. Brahman embodies a fragment of his
own consciousness in a human body for the purpose of elevating and enlightening
mankind. This is the incarnation, a tiny fragment of a much larger spiritual
being. Fortunate indeed is the human to encounter this being while on earth! His
life is transformed by the immense power of the Avatar, as were the disciples of
Jesus, Chaitanya, and Ramakrishna. Many souls become enlightened merely by
contact with this being when he deigns to visit earth.
Omjesus.com:
The message is the same: Jesus was preaching intense spiritual life; to
forsake, home, relatives and the rest and turn to God radically in pure
devotion.
Guru Kurt:
Yes, but Jesus used very harsh language. The reason he used this
language was to stir up and shake up slothful man. He never intended, for
instance, people to actually go out and buy swords! One reading His words,
however, is moved to action of a beneficial kind. The reader’s thought process
is enlivened and stimulated. An Avatar uses language to wake people up from
their slumbering, slothful ways and gradually increase the overall energy and
happiness of the world. Also, Jesus lived in a violent world, where people who
followed him actually were killed for their beliefs, and he knew this would
happen. He stands at the ready to ensure that those who stood up for his
name’s sake against even close relatives will be safe from hell, and will
enter his heaven, which also had a specific meaning that I am not prepared to
disclose at this date.
Omjesus.com:
"…and if you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give
the money to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven. Then come, follow
me" (Matthew 19:21).
Guru Kurt:
This is the same as the ideal of non-attachment described in the Gita.
However, it is higher to offer the end of sorrow rather than some tangible
physical reward. Jesus was secretly telling people here that they would receive
inward treasures of the spirit, such as compassion, temperance, peace of mind,
joy and the like. They are free to interpret what he means by "treasure in
heaven." Again, by perfection here Jesus means the state of enlightenment,
which he shies away from addressing directly.
"…Do not worry about anything: look at the birds of the air; they
neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds
them. Are you not of more value than them?"
Guru Kurt:
Again, this is true non-attachment. Jesus alone among all beings on
earth was always free from attachment. He, and Krishna, were ever-free. A
selfish thought about material success never darkens the mind of the Avatar,
from the time when he is a little baby. This is why the baby Krishna and the
baby Jesus are both celebrated. The Avatar is fully aware of his own nature and
the main message of his life at every moment, even from before birth. Humanity
is being led by the Avatars along a trail to increased societal happiness and
peace, as well as personal enlightenment as they attain the end-state of
evolution. Jesus is one of the mile-markers, pointing the way to man in a manner
appropriate for his times.
Omjesus.com:
"…And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the
field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon
in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. Therefore do not worry,
saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear?' But
strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things
will be given to you as well (Matthew 6:26-33).
Guru Kurt:
You must understand, all this for Jesus was as natural as breathing. He
never even considered his own needs, for all his attention was upon doing the
will of his Father. He followed his Father’s will even onto death, and will do
so again in the future if required. Now, you must also realize that Jesus knew
full well that he was an immortal being, incapable of dying as a human being is
incapable of jumping to the moon. For Christians, the resurrection is
everything, but for Jesus it was but a dalliance. These people would never have
believed him if he merely told them about the immortality of the soul. He used
his divine powers to achieve resurrection, but he was never dead! All that
happened was that the soul, the morsel of consciousness Brahman has dedicated
for this eternal purpose, left his body, and then returned. But he does this
over and over, as for instance with Krishna, Chaitanya, and Ramakrishna. Where
is the mystery for him? Ramakrishna also died young, of cancer, but he too was
fully aware that this was only a doorway into a new life. He may already be
back!
Omjesus.com:
"Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and
the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone
who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Is
there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? Or
if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? If you then, who are evil, know
how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in
heaven give good things to those who ask him." (Matthew 7:7-11).
Guru Kurt:
No one can accuse Jesus of excessive clarity in describing the path onto
enlightenment. Here, he uses highly figurative language that has a major impact
on people’s minds, but does not really convey the path to enlightenment, which
as I said he was careful to avoid mentioning. How much sweeter and to the point
is the Bhagavad Gita! Yet Jesus knew what he was doing. He said he would return
again, and he will. He may even be among us as I write this. On his return, he
will certainly straighten the path that now seems so crooked. He will reveal a
full path for man, and explain evolution and the goal of evolution in clear and
unambiguous terms.
Omjesus.com:
One disciple said to him: "Lord, first let me go and bury my
father." Jesus said: "Follow me. Let the dead bury their own
dead" (Matthew 8:20-22). We cannot even conceive how radical a statement
this was in an oriental society where the duty of the son to bury his father was
peremptory. This is the 'Wanderradikalismus" (Gert Theissen) of the
original Jesus movement. It is the voice of Jesus, and the message the Jesus
movement of history stood for.
Guru Kurt:
Again, Jesus spoke with language to wake people up, to shock them. He
was the original shock-jock. What he means here, but did not explain, is that
the world is filled with worldly people. The Gita would call them tamasic and
rajasic, as opposed to the spiritual, the sattvic. Here he was, an incarnation
of God, and this person was on the verge of choosing the company of evil men
over his company! The shocking language is appropriate. Jesus refers to them as
dead, as indeed the Bhagavatam also does, in as many words, when referring to
materialistic people.
Omjesus.com:
These words are music to our ears. Here we hear the same old voice that is
speaking at the heart and root of any genuine tradition:
sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah
"Abandon all varieties of mundane religion and just surrender unto Me. I
shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." (Bhagavad-gita
18:66).
Guru Kurt:
Again, the Gita is much sweeter than the Bible, but you are correct that
the messages are similar. One traveling along the path of love may indeed allow
traditional religious rituals and ceremonies to fall by the wayside. What God
really wants is the whole life of a person, acting in loving service to Him. If
you get up every morning with the sole aim of performing all your actions for
God, of what use are rituals? None at all. When you eat breakfast, that is an
offering. When you go to work, whether you are paid or unpaid, that too is an
offering onto the lotus feet of God. To him such behavior and thought are
infinitely more precious than mere recitation of doctrine, as the Christians are
so fond of doing. One offering his whole life to God in this way discovers that
God in his extreme wisdom and detachment wants nothing but the happiness and
complete fulfillment of the soul in question. Because of his wonderful divine
nature He is incapable of doing anything but providing help and increasing the
joy of the striving soul.
Omjesus.com:
Such transcendental knowledge is universal, never changing, and not subject
to the speculation of theologians and philosophers. It is raja-vidya raja-guhyam,
"the king of education, the most secret of all secrets"; pavitram
idam uttamam, "the purest knowledge and the most perfect"; pratyashavagamam
dharmyam, "it provides direct perception of the self by realization,
and is the perfection of religion"; su-sukham kartum avyayam,
"it is everlasting and joyfully performed" (Bhagavad-gita 9.2).
Guru Kurt:
The path of love has been provided to man as the most efficacious and
easiest path to tread. There is no path that is swifter, sweeter, or more
joyful. Yet, such a one is granted all the results of the path of knowledge as
well! Love leads to wisdom, for one has attained union with the Lord within, the
source of all knowledge. Wisdom flows from the illumined man as water spurts
from a fountain in a never-ending stream. The paths of Love, Action, and
Knowledge all flow together in the glorious state of enlightenment, and the
illumined man becomes an expert on all three paths.
All it depends upon is the surrender of the soul and complete abandonment to
the will of the Supreme Lord: "Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink
it, your will be done…" (Matthew 26:42); "Your kingdom come. Your
will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10).
Guru Kurt:
Jesus said these things for the benefit of man alone. He knew full well,
even before his birth, what his fate was to be. He was opening a door here for
others who would follow him, even unto death. Love of God is no small or
laughing matter. It sometimes does lead to death in the cruel and violent world
in which we live. Such a one is able to follow Jesus with peace of mind and joy,
knowing that the loving arms of the Father await him as he crosses death’s
portal, and his good fate is assured in future lives. Jesus was setting an
example here for all his followers, so that they would know the proper attitude
to assume when trapped by violent circumstance. As an incarnation of Brahman,
one may even say that Jesus was responsible for his own fate, in that he made no
use of his divine powers to protect himself. Who can understand these things,
that are conceived in the mind of God for the sole benefit of humanity? None can
deny the mighty impact of Jesus’ life, or second-guess his purpose here.
Believe me, though, Jesus was under no illusion of being a temporary, mortal
being. He knew, as well as you know that you will draw your next breath, that
the death of his body could never be the end for him.
Omjesus.com:
And as the result of such surrender, Sri Krishna reveals Himself to His
devotee:
ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham
"As they surrender unto Me, I reveal myself" (Bhagavad-gita 4.11).
Never mind religion, race or nation: samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu na me dvesyo 'sti
na priyah - "I am not partial to anyone. I am equal to all" (Bhagavad-gita
9.29).
Guru Kurt:
The attitude of surrender is very good, but it requires intense
practice. One should perform all one’s duties for the sake of the Lord, and
over the course of many lifetimes for some, and in this very life for others,
the Lord will reveal himself from the depths of the unconscious mind. He emerges
in resplendent glory, destroying all remaining selfishness in a mighty act of
divine grace, and reigns in the surrendered heart as the almighty and blissful
Self. Thereafter, the soul is free from all sorrow and pain, and lives only to
communicate what he has learned to others, to take them by the hand and lead
them to the promised land, the glorious final state of evolution, full and
joyous enlightenment.
Omjesus.com:
Spiritual life is a practical, verifiable experience. Performed under the
guidance of great souls, its results can be experienced by anyone, everywhere,
and at all times.
Guru Kurt:
This is a good point, because reading the scriptures is one thing, but a
person doesn’t really get a glimpse of the inner meaning of scripture until he
meets a bonafide spiritual master. The touch of the master is imperative for
real understanding and swift progress on the path. Also, when struggling on the
path, the master provides real encouragement. It is easy to lose heart, to lose
one’s way when traveling alone. A teacher is a continual reminder that
something more is possible than mundane life, that the human being can transform
himself, through God’s grace, into a divine, radiant, blissful being.
Omjesus.com:
Unfortunately, most Christians are conditioned by the theological
constructions that they have been taught. It's hard for them to open their minds
to allow the original concept to enter. We must be understanding, and help those
understand who want to.
We appreciate the sincere attempts and enormous courage of New Testament
scholars in their 150 years of their quest for Jesus - from H.S. Raimarus to F.
Strauss, from Albert Schweitzer to R. Bultmann and in recent times from J.
Bornekamm to J. D. Crossan, John S. Cloppenborg, Burton L. Mack to Marcus J.
Borg, just to name a few. These men have rendered tremendous contributions to
freeing our minds from previous impositions, only to return to us the Jesus of
History.
Guru Kurt:
As I said, the theological constructs of Christianity are largely a consequence of the secretive nature of Jesus’ teaching. He revealed the path of love, but kept the truth about reincarnation and enlightenment secret to suit the divine purpose of the Father, Brahman. The time has now come to bring these two great traditions together, East and West, in a harmonious revelation that will enlighten the whole world, and set the feet of all man onto the royal path of Love, as revealed in the Gita and the Bhagavatam. The mythology of these scriptures, however, will be stripped away, leaving the reality which, as science is showing us gradually, is magnificent enough to awe even the harshest of critics. Top